Everyday Leadership: Drew Dudley on Redefining Success and Embracing Vulnerability

In this episode of the BHP Podcast, Jason Tharp sits down with Drew Dudley, Wall Street Journal Bestselling Author and renowned speaker, to discuss his viral TED Talk, redefining leadership, and the power of vulnerability. Drew shares his personal journey, including his battle with mental health, and the lessons learned from life’s challenges. They explore practical strategies for embracing authenticity, asking for help, and fostering resilience. Tune in for an inspiring conversation that will motivate you to embrace your authentic self, lead with compassion, and find hope in everyday moments.

FOLLOW DREW DUDLEY:
✩ WEBSITE - https://www.drewdudley.com
✩ INSTAGRAM - https://www.instagram.com/dayonedrew/
✩ FACEBOOK - https://www.linkedin.com/in/dayonedrew/
✩ LINKEDIN - https://www.linkedin.com/in/dayonedrew/
✩ TED talks: https://www.ted.com/talks/drew_dudley_everyday_leadership?utm_campaign=tedspread&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=tedcomshare
✩ TED talks:  https://youtu.be/b3ADu08wQE0?si=IFn7QG9aoFjCXpjH

MEET DREW DUDLEY:
Fifteen years ago, Drew Dudley was the head of Canada’s largest leadership program at the University of Toronto when a group of his students secretly nominated him to deliver a TED Talk that went on to be voted one of the “15 Most Inspirational TED Talks of All Time” and gave Drew the opportunity to travel the world trying to redefine leadership for as many people as possible.

Now a Wall Street Journal Bestselling Author, speaker and educator, Drew is on a mission to  help people unlearn some dangerous lessons about leadership. With clients that have included  some of the worlds most dynamic organizations--including the United Nations and over 100 colleges and universities--Drew draws on over two decades of experience to blend humor, storytelling and easy-to-implement strategies into some of the most engaging and practical leadership presentations in the world. Both TIME and Business Insider have identified his work  as “one of the ten speeches that will make you a better leader.” 

CONNECT WITH JASON:

✩ Website - https://www.jasontharp.com
✩ BHP - https://www.beyondhopeproject.com
✩ Beyond Hope Project Podcast - https://www.jasontharp.com/podcast
✩ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/wondervillestudios/
✩ Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/wondervillestudios
✩ TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@thepowerupproject?_t=8e4jxMT9QFP&_r=1
✩ LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/beyondhopeproject

OFFICIAL SHOP & BOOKSTORE:

📚 https://www.jasontharp.com/shop

MEET JASON:

Hi, I’m Jason!
Ever since I was six, I knew I was born to tell stories. As a best-selling author, illustrator, and sought-after speaker, I've turned my personal battles with grade four brain cancer, obesity, and negative self-talk into fuel for transformation. My keynotes don't just talk—they spark potential, ignite creativity, and build resilience. If you're ready for an engaging experience that challenges the status quo and propels your organization to new heights, let's turn your 'impossible today' into 'possible tomorrow' together!

For more information or to partner with me - https://www.jasontharp.com/bookjason

Transcript

how could the embarrassment of asking for help which by the way there doesn't turn out to be when you actually do it

0:05

but I know the fear is there how is that more shameful than some of the stuff you do to the people that you love and the

0:10

way you treat yourself and feel about yourself I think that's where I'd start he like you don't deserve bad things in

0:17

your life you don't now you might be responsible for some and you should be accountable for them but you don't deserve them once we convince that let

0:24

go just try this is maybe the best advice I would give just as a thought experiment

0:31

what if you did deserve better like just I know we're going to talk ourselves into

0:37

thinking we don't whatever the case may be but just as a thought experiment what if I did deserve better and think of it

0:44

life that way and Watch What [Music]

0:57

Happens Drew thank you so much for joining me here um you know really appreciate we had uh

1:03

our our if I remember right going back it was somebody that I want to say it

1:09

was Becca that saw you speak this was years ago um and she messaged me and

1:15

said hey I saw this guy named Drew Dudley speak you should meet him I was

1:21

like I'd love to meet him and then she did an intro email and then you and I chatted and then uh and then Co happened

1:28

and then uh a brain tumor happened and uh we just recently reconnected so I'm

1:35

I'm happy uh that this is all uh you know coming together and I know you're a busy man and for taking the time out so

1:41

I appreciate you coming on here with me yeah my man it's a long time since Cornelius Sparkle steeve if I remember

1:49

correctly which is is what I will always remember is when you told me the name of the main character of your book yeah I

1:55

to this day if I ever if I ever hit the lottery and bought myself a race horse he is Cornelius Sparkle Ste I will I

2:02

will put TM and your name next to it my man but without a doubt Cornelius Sparkle Steed if you haven't picked up

2:08

the book everybody go get it I appreciate that man thank you so much um so I I want to jump in with one question

2:15

for you and kind of give you an idea first a little caveat before is to tell you how we Define Hope on Beyond hope

2:20

project which is a little different um I think hope is one of those words it can it kind of people have their own meaning

2:26

for it so I decided I needed to Define what that meant for me especially if I was going to make something called Beyond hope um and the way I look at

2:33

Hope is is the ignition switch so it's the starting point to start your path so I want to help people find the PATH and

2:39

then like in life people are going to start going down that path and they're going to find their gurus and they're going to find all this stuff and they're

2:44

going to think that somebody's got the answer and then you know ultimately failure whatever they classify as

2:50

failure is going to happen and I think people's most often respons is like I'm

2:55

failing and instead what I want to be is the also the person that shows them like no you didn't fail fail you've been learning this whole time let me show you

3:01

the path again it's just moved maybe a little over here so with the idea of that definition if you can go back into

3:08

Drew's life at any point in time and provide a little hope for him what would

3:14

that look like maybe what age give me a little context of that of that story of

3:20

Hope wow that is such a really good question like when would you go back because the idea it isn't to go and

3:27

avoid what put you in a position to need hope it's like what would you say if you had

3:33

to go back live that moment again when did you most need it yeah and what's interesting is it you just made me

3:40

realize how lucky I am in many ways because when I go back to those moments and think okay this is where current

3:46

Drew would slide in and be helpful it's strange because I keep thinking of all the people who are already there and and

3:53

how good a job that they did in picking me up in these these really bad moments I've lost a lot of friends I think I've

3:59

been to 21 funerals and I've only been to 13 weddings and a lot of those folks

4:04

were under the age of 25 and so over and over again I've had these moments where

4:09

I've been told that somebody I loved and usually who were very young were gone and every single time I had people there

4:16

and so I'm trying to think of when when would be the best time and I honestly

4:21

man you know what I think it might be I'll go really recently and I'll go as recently as a year ago and I went

4:30

through a a really bad depressive downturn towards the end of the pandemic

4:35

I actually handled the first part of the pandemic pretty well I needed a a downtime and so the idea of getting off

4:41

the road and having six weeks to lie in bed and let my plantar fasciitis heel and all the other things that came it

4:47

was great but the last two years I went through a bad depressive cycle I was really alone I lived on the side of a

4:52

mountain doing my speeches from a studio there and I I'd love to go back and talk

4:57

to that guy one day when he was alone you know on the side of that mountain after finishing a speech and wondering

5:03

if he'd ever get the chance to go back and be in front of an audience again and let him know that two years from now

5:09

he's going to be feeling better than uh he's felt in in years uh the last time I

5:15

can think of like the time of my life when I look back and I'm like that's where I want to get to was 200 200 uh 16

5:23

and 17 and then like right at the end uh beginning of 2017 I I lost uh I lost the

5:29

woman I was uh seeing at the time uh she died by Suicide and everything sort of

5:35

started to tip downwards and then the pandemic tipped it all the way and as someone who's bipolar um man I dropped a

5:41

lot of stuff in this one answer right as someone who's bipolar you go through those depressive swings You Know It uh

5:47

it doesn't make it easier but I've you know I started to come out of that and not only are things in life good but my

5:55

brain chemistry right now is allowing me to recognize the things that are good because one of the problems with depression is that your chemistry is

6:01

altered so such that you can't take pleasure from things I remember opening

6:06

up the the box of my first book and and after years of wanting to put out a book

6:12

years of wanting to put out a book I open up the book and there it is sitting in front of me flesh from the publisher

6:17

and I felt nothing and that's when I knew I was in something bad that I felt

6:23

nothing when I opened up this huge life and you have to act like you do right because you know you should right you

6:29

almost try to act yourself into it so I think I'd like to go back and talk to Drew Dudley in

6:35

2021 and and I'd like to say you've gone through ups and downs and I know that

6:40

you've told yourself and everybody else that you should draw on the Downs to remind yourself of what you've gone

6:46

through and I know that this feels like the one time that it's not going to work out but it is and this four or five year

6:54

cycle of depression that you've gone through is is almost over and that means

7:00

that finally your feelings are going to align with the realities of your life and that to me would be something that

7:06

would have been a great thing to have had a chance to hear there but otherwise man it's a long answer I know but I'm

7:12

really lucky you asking me that made me realize that if I went back to sort of support me during those times when I

7:17

needed hope I'd have to get in line and that's a pretty lucky thing to to have

7:23

true so I appreciate you asking that off the top it got me thinking yeah that that's that's a great answer and yeah

7:29

there's there's a lot in there that I would love to like talk about because I think that and and I'm just curious out

7:35

of out of just my own curiosity here is you know I you know realize through the clarity

7:43

of a brain tumor like what I had been doing a lot of times in my past was

7:49

basically telling the world what I wished for but not actually believing

7:54

the stuff that I was doing and I wonder like in what you're talking about there you kind of alluded to like you knew you

8:01

were supposed to be this way and I know you as you've done those speaking things

8:06

you've been doing lots of speaking stuff and before we dive into like the whole story behind that but like do you find

8:11

that that was the case for you as well are you were you kind of projecting outto the world what you wished but you

8:17

secretly kind of are like a little bit like am I buying what I'm saying or or am I off on

8:23

that you know what's weird it's different like I buy what I say I just don't always execute on it yes okay

8:28

that's yes Better Way say it yeah and and because I think I I get what you're getting at and the answer is 100% it's

8:35

almost like as a speaker who talks about changing Behavior there's a couple different ways

8:41

you can go at it you can either be someone who is really good at it and now you're teaching and so your

8:46

presentations are almost a a lesson or a teach on how other people can do it and that's what I hope mine do but at the

8:53

same time I also got to be honest mine is like a constant reminder to myself and so every presentation I give on what

8:59

are your values and how do you execute on them and how do you create these moments of impact uh how do you take

9:05

care of yourself I think is the big one that's the one I bump into all the time because I go up and I give these

9:10

strategies on self- resect self-compassion self-care and honestly every time I give the speech it's like

9:16

I'm giving it to myself because I know there is a gap between what I'm saying will work and what I'm actually doing

9:23

but it actually is part of the reason that I I get motivated to do it is because I know it works I know that if I

9:29

execute on these things that I'm talking about that my life gets better and it's really hard to go on stage and talk

9:36

about doing it if you're not doing it yourself and so it's almost like I'm forcing myself into doing what's good

9:42

for me by talking about it and so yeah I always doubt that man I'm always like in

9:48

this in this moment I know exactly what advice I would give someone I loved and why on Earth do you not accept that and

9:56

then what happens is you're like because how do I know if I'm right and then the voice in your head goes all right well

10:02

if you don't know that you're right people pay you to share these ideas and are you misleading people and then of

10:09

course are you a fraud on and on we go and there's that concept of impostor

10:14

syndrome right I don't like the term man I don't like the term imposter syndrome

10:19

because syndrome is like an illness yeah and it means there's something different right I actually found that syndrome

10:26

mean it's medical term for we've seen it before but we don't know what it is but

10:31

that idea of imposter syndrome I think everybody feels it and the people who don't are this small group of of you

10:38

know people who are narcissistic and they're a relatively small group though I think most people feel impostor syndrome and if almost everyone feels

10:45

something how is it a syndrome that's like saying you have oxygen CO2 exchange syndrome it's what everyone does it's a

10:52

fundamental part of humanity right so I always am like am I alone in this I don't think so

10:59

and if we all think we're frauds are any of us really frauds and so yeah man like

11:04

that question of when you're giving this advice do you feel a disconnect between what you're telling people works and

11:11

what you're actually doing is for sure and that disconnect was really making it hard to do my job because I was so

11:17

depressed and I was battling so hard with those feelings that I couldn't actually execute on some of the things

11:23

that I knew would make my life better and so you start to feel like what right do you have to actually pass it on but

11:28

it's still still good advice even if you're not living it uh it it's not like

11:33

you're giving advice you know doesn't work and that's why you're not taking it it's more the the challenge that we all

11:39

face whether it's with circumstances beyond our control or mental illness or physical uh disabilities we all have

11:45

those things right that stand in the way of us being everything we want to be at all times and so yeah man but it's a

11:52

real feeling as I I think any speaker feels it because there's a lot of pressure when you teach other people to

11:58

make sure that you're perfect in what you do and that's too much pressure for anyone to put on themselves 100% I think

12:05

I think a lot of times people that are you kind of talked about where it's almost like the you have you have the

12:11

speakers that are that are you can't hide how authentic it is like it's and

12:16

it's almost like it becomes you get into this business this speaking world even

12:22

or I think any writing or any sort of creative Endeavor because it's almost therapy first that's why I kind of like

12:29

explain to people it's it's always funny to me and actually before we got on here I did a solo episode on this that you

12:35

know I just recently went and um had a a keynote a big like a big company and it

12:40

was like man I can't believe like I'm coming here and then it was like and I'm in it and I'm going like I can't believe

12:48

the reaction I'm getting from this group and like seeing people crying and stuff

12:53

it was just like in my head it was like because one of the things I've struggled with and you know she actually

12:59

bounc it off you because you might actually have a perspective on it is that you know if you would have take me

13:04

back three years ago prior to tumor I wouldn't even recognize who that person is like I have changed so much and I

13:11

don't know if it's the clarity of the tumor or the belief thing but it's it it's amazing to me that all I'm doing is

13:17

just being myself like really who I've always felt like I was saying the same stuff you know i'

13:25

I've changed it a little bit because I have a little more clarity on it but essentially saying the same stuff the difference is I actually believe it now

13:31

versus just saying it before because I felt like it was the right thing to say and I think that people uh and tell me

13:39

if you agree or disagree but people that are doing like the work like I think we do which is like more service heart heart L type of

13:45

thing I haven't met anybody yet that's not Afflicted with some sort of

13:51

self-deprecating depression there's something there's always a catch that we're always kind of

13:57

using as that like it's almost like yeah a cut that won't heal and you every once well gota like it's got to bust open a

14:02

little bit you oh yeah I got to deal with that you have any thoughts on that yeah I mean Insight comes from pain

14:08

right like you don't become Wiser from stuff working out and uh you know I think that it becomes dangerous and if

14:15

stuff keeps working out for you because you forget that most of your your growth

14:20

and insight comes from the times that it doesn't and I think that one of the things about speaking and you talk about

14:27

authenticity and honestly man I can't get over and I don't know how so I like

14:34

to think it's real because I I don't know how to put it on and so if people come up and say I really like your

14:39

authenticity I never go into a presentation thinking okay be authentic

14:45

and so if I'm coming off as authentic then I must be because that's one like I try to be I try to Pace it right I try

14:51

to be emotionally connecting I try to know these moments where you're going to tr like come close to making people cry

14:56

or hit them emotionally all of that is planned out The Arc is planned out but never do I go in being like and I'm G to

15:02

be super authentic so it just comes if you do it the key I think that people

15:08

have to remember is that if you're gonna go up on stage where you say it's therapy I think a lot of comedians say

15:13

it as that I've heard a comedians say if I couldn't come up here and work through my crap every night I'd have been gone

15:19

10 years ago like there's no way it'll work but I think as long as your story

15:24

is about the audience I've heard speakers go on and tell harrowing stories of the things that they've gone

15:30

through and the problem is at the end they don't then say and here is why this

15:36

matters to you here are the things that this very personal and unique experience

15:41

that only I had here are the ways that it can be relevant to your life here are the three lessons that I pulled from

15:48

surviving on Everest here are the five things that I learned about everyday life from a surprise brain tumor those

15:54

are the key pieces of being someone who's a speaker because you're not up there to tell your story you're up there

16:01

to connect with their stories using yours so it's got to be your stories but you shouldn't be the main character they

16:08

should be the main character and the idea of telling your story is to be useful not inspiring and not you know

16:16

not someone to look up to your goal as a speaker is to be useful and so whatever

16:22

your amazing story is it better be applied to theirs and I've seen speakers

16:27

go up and tell and it's a therapy session and they pour out these this unbelievable story and then you've got the audience being like wow I can't

16:35

believe what you've been through like now tell me how you did it and they don't and and that's that's a challenge

16:42

right you got to make sure that you do so I love the fact that our job gives us the opportunities to share things that

16:49

you see resonate with people yeah and I also love the fact that I can be open

16:56

about my alcoholism or my battle with my weight or my bipolar or now my ADHD my

17:01

God it's a litany at this point but I could be open about those things because then people can't use them as Weapons

17:07

against you either right it's like Eminem at the end of Eight Mile right like here is here is everything about me

17:13

now tell the like come after me with something right and so I I think that's part of I find that empowering people

17:19

come up and say that's you know that's courage and God that sounded like a humble brag there but you know what I

17:25

mean people come say that's courageous and I'm sort of more like it's more of a defense mechanism if you want to want to

17:31

be honest maybe I don't have the courage to face some of the things I've done or said in the past and as such I'm open

17:37

about it so that I can deflect whenever somebody brings it at me I can say I know I've been open about that right

17:43

yeah what are they going to attack you with when you've acknowledge your mistakes as best you can yeah and you

17:49

and the thing that's funny about your story is that um you know I reading your

17:55

bio like I I what I did not know was that like basically the Ted Talk was like sprung on you like by a group of

18:02

students you know and um if if anybody doesn't know yet it'll be link here but

18:08

I'm gonna guess there's a good chance that they've how many views is this it's millions of people have watched your

18:13

your Ted Talk and and been inspired by it but like how did that play out and like did you know immediately like oh

18:21

I'm I'm a speaker like did you kind of take to it right away or was it something you fought like is it

18:27

something you've always wanted to do what was the what was the the feeling like of that

18:34

situation yeah you know I think I think when you look back and I realize the diagnosis I've had uh on the mental

18:41

illness side particularly the ADHD and the bipolar I look back at my life and when you're going through manic stages

18:48

uh what happens is you kind of want to be the center of attention and I always like being the center of attention and

18:54

as such I always was trying to entertain I always felt that if the room was quiet

18:59

I felt pressure on me to do something about that I was not comfortable with

19:04

silence and so I would always try to fill it and I remember the first time I ever went on stage though was as an

19:11

actor in a short play and during dress rehearsal I forgot every line that I had

19:17

and it was the most mortifying horrifying empty feeling that I've ever

19:22

had in my life and I think because I still had to go on on Monday the dress rehearsal was Friday I spent the entire

19:29

weekend just trying to nail it and I went on stage and it went great and so the feeling of it going great I wanted

19:36

again and again the terror of having been on stage and forgetting everything is what has driven me every day since I

19:43

think is that I have to go on and be prepared because before my brain let me down and left me hanging and I can't I

19:50

can't have that I have to be great the Ted Talk the students did register me

19:55

for without my knowledge and I was accepted to do it but you want to know the speaking side of it I didn't

20:01

consider myself a speaker at that point but if you want to know how I became a speaker man it's because I wanted to get

20:07

100% academically and I would take notes verbatim from my professors go home and

20:12

type them out and then when it came time for midterms and finals I would convert the notes that I had you know typed i'

20:20

convert them into PowerPoint presentations I'd write hour and a half long lectures and I would then deliver

20:25

the lecture out loud to nobody and that when I went into write the test I could remember saying it I could remember

20:31

hearing myself say I could remember the props saying it I could remember looking at it typing it I basically gave my mind

20:37

a million different ways to I can remember the look of it on the screen I gave my my brain a million ways to

20:44

remember the content and that led me to getting great grades but it also led me to doing hundreds of hours of standing

20:51

alone in a dorm room pretending to stand in front of an audience trying to teach an hour and a half of content and what I

20:58

learned from doing that was that the best way to remember stuff was to turn it into stories and when I had the

21:04

opportunity to start running Charities and to start training volunteers I started training using stories and the

21:11

thrill of being up in front of people watching how your story impacted them that's how it all started man I actually

21:17

became a speaker by practicing hundreds of hours in front of nobody and then by the end of my time at University you

21:23

know people from the class would come and sit in my dorm room and listen to the lectures because apparent I got

21:28

pretty good at them but I use my speaking as a functional way of making me a better student and in the process

21:35

in hundreds of hours of practice with no audience turned me into somebody who is pretty good at knowing how to take an

21:41

idea and wrap it in velcro because these weren't my ideas these things the pr

21:46

taught I had to figure out a way of making them sticky and then I was able to apply that process to my own ideas

21:54

because a lot of the stuff I talk about isn't new man yeah but I find a way to try to make it sticky yeah wrap it in

22:00

velcro basically absolutely well it's funny too because like you in in a way like you took your what other would

22:07

perceive as some sort of not superpower and you turned it into your superpower like your inability to just sit in

22:13

silence you're like okay and then you you gave yourself this this thing to to

22:18

learn from and uh man that's cool I I used to do the same thing with drawing that was like my thing it was like you

22:25

know if I could if I could I learned that if I wanted to take things in I always would when I especially when in

22:30

the corporate world I would be like if I'm drawing don't think I'm ignoring you all this is how I quiet my brain so I

22:37

can hear you all and I fill up just the pages with all these Doodles all over

22:42

the place and I remember them asking me a couple times like questions and I oh yeah well and I would just go kick back

22:48

right to them everything they just said and you're like yeah this like everybody's got their own way of doing stuff and I think that that is like

22:55

what's pretty amazing so in in your process like what would be like something that you would say you know a

23:01

lot of times people ask for you know help right like this idea of asking for help and there's let's say there is

23:07

somebody out there that is in the same spot you are that is diagnosed with these things or they're struggling with mental health or they're struggling with

23:13

trying to figure out what direction there is and they have somebody like a Drew Dudley that they're looking at you

23:18

know how what do you ask how do you advise people the best way to go about

23:24

asking for help is because what I have found is that asking for help it's two

23:29

way one it's super empowering but at the same time it's also incredibly frightening you know um because I think

23:35

it addresses the biggest thing where people think I'm dumb and I don't know anything so I'm I got to ask for help

23:40

and it's very shame especially if you're a person that's rooted in shame so what what what's your best advice for anybody

23:46

that's looking for help well I think the first thing I would say is that if you don't know what

23:52

you're struggling with the thing that help does is it actually connects you to an entire knowledge base I didn't know I

23:59

thought ADHD was something completely different than what it was until I was diagnosed with it at 46 last year and

24:05

all the sudden I had this entire knowledge base whether it's online in 30- second Clips or it's actual books

24:12

and and insights that this is what your disease is and it was like my whole life started to make more sense like

24:19

basically I I give you my advice to this what why don't you deserve to

24:26

understand yourself better feel better treat other people better like what

24:31

downside is there to that why don't you deserve that and the thing is every

24:36

answer we give as to why we don't deserve it is usually caused by the illness right I don't deserve it because

24:42

I get drunk all the time and say terrible things I don't deserve it because I don't follow through on

24:48

projects that I said I would do because that's a huge thing for people with ADHD uh I don't deserve it because I'm a

24:55

miserable person who causes pain to my friends and when I go through these manic episodes right but every reason

25:01

you don't deserve to feel better that you give yourself is driven by the illness it's not who you are it's who

25:08

the illness has made you and there's no reason you don't deserve to feel better

25:14

and if you can't convince yourself that you don't deserve to feel better the people you love deserve to be treated

25:20

better and if you've tried everything else the the power of your will the

25:26

trying to access the love that you have for other people and now you feel as if you're not a good friend because you

25:31

can't overcome your behaviors even though you're saying I I want to do it because I love these people and then

25:37

when you fail you start to think I'm a terrible person my love isn't worth anything it's all driven by the illness

25:44

all the behaviors you think make you not deserving are driven by the illness why don't you deserve to feel better and why

25:50

don't the people you love deserve to be treated better and once you realize there is no good answer to that that

25:55

makes it a lot easier and ultimately one of the things was no matter what I did

26:00

and how sick I was I didn't want to hurt people I loved and I I did all the time

26:05

and so I kept telling myself that there is no bigger shame than hurting the

26:11

people you love so you're afraid of asking for help well why because I'm G to be ashamed how is that not more sh

26:19

like how how could the embarrassment of asking for help which by the way there doesn't turn out to be when you actually

26:24

do it but I know the fear is there how is that more shameful than of the stuff you do to the people that you love and

26:30

the way you treat yourself and feel about yourself I think that's where I'd start it's like you don't deserve bad

26:35

things in your life you don't now you might be responsible for some and you should be accountable for them but you

26:41

don't deserve them once we convince that let go just try this is maybe the best advice I would give just as a thought

26:49

experiment what if you did deserve better like just I

26:55

know we're going to talk ourselves into thinking we don't whatever the case maybe but just as a thought experiment

27:00

what if I did deserve better and think of life that way and Watch What

27:05

Happens that's wonderful that's that's wonderful man what what in your process of of getting to those conclusions for

27:12

yourself was the most hopeful like most helpful thing that you did that was it therapy was it journaling what was the

27:19

thing that you that you found to be the most helpful for yourself individually accountability with other

27:25

people um informing other people that I care about like you know the inner Inner Circle letting them know uh what was

27:32

going on how it impacted me asking if they'd be willing to take some time to look at some material whether it was a

27:39

book that I thought was particular like one book that was particularly helpful or one article and of course they're

27:45

willing to do that like nobody who is in your inner circles ever going to be like oh homework hell no and letting them

27:51

know what was going on letting them know what the symptoms were and letting them know what it getting worse looked like

27:57

and giving them permission to start awkward conversations if they see some

28:02

of those things that was really helpful to me is going to my closest friends and saying this is what a manic episode

28:09

looks like be on the lookout for this am I spending a bunch of money all of the sudden out of nowhere am I jumping all

28:15

over the place in conversation am I talking when the social interaction is

28:21

clearly over and so keep an eye out for those things let me know if you see them

28:27

uh can you help me me if I tell that I'll do something do you mind following up more than is probably appropriate uh

28:34

to have to do because the ADHD means this is the case uh you know excuse the

28:39

fact that I'm G to forget names it just they don't stick in my head being open and asking people to be on the lookout

28:45

for when the symptoms are getting worse has been a huge thing for me accountability from other people and the

28:52

support of other people because what makes us sick is the thing that's supposed to warn us that we're getting

28:57

sick and at least in my world so my brain is not good at saying you're manic that's

29:03

not how Mania works right so I think that's one of the key things is embracing how much help other people

29:09

within your inner circle can be it doesn't mean doing what I do necessarily standing on stage and saying this is you

29:14

know this is a mental illness I battle it means telling for people though and being very intimate about what that

29:20

means and how it impacts you because not only then do you get help in catching it

29:25

when it's happening you get more forgiveness when it does because people know it's not personal doesn't mean that

29:31

they're still not hurt by that thing you said but they do know that it wasn't about them it was a disease and that

29:38

that's hard sometimes to look at but people get better at it and then they can separate your worst behavior from

29:45

your character yeah because unfortunately mental illness often brings out the worst parts of your uh

29:51

personality but it's not your actual character I don't know if that makes sense totally 100% sry not your

29:57

personality bring out bad behaviors that don't reflect your actual character I think it's better way to put it so how

30:04

do you how do you go about like if you're having those episodes when you're I mean I'm I'm I'm assuming I'm sure

30:10

because I've had those moments myself when you're getting ready to go on stage in front of x amount of people and you're like just not feeling like do you

30:18

have something that is that your your go-to like let's say nobody's available that circle's gone like what is it that

30:25

you do to kind of get past that that moment of like oh God I just can't

30:30

you know I just can't life right now you know yeah you know what's weird is that the speaker analogy has only happened

30:37

twice if you can believe that wow I've only ever uh and I think I'm coming up

30:43

on 1,000 professional speeches I've done over a thousand just in total but I'm talking like people pay me to go and do

30:49

it I'm coming up on a thousand and only twice that I can remember was I ever like I don't want to do this right now

30:56

uh and so and that was scary to me and it was around that time uh when it was

31:01

all virtual when I was talking about how I was in a really bad downward spiral

31:07

and it made me it really scared me because that was the one thing that no matter how dark it got I it always

31:13

brought me joy was walking onto a stage it's where I felt safe it's where I felt like I had purpose it's where I felt

31:19

like I had value and for a long time in my life it's the only place I thought that was true I've come to realize that

31:26

that's really unhealthy thinking but so that hasn't happened a lot but when I'm like I can't do life right now what a

31:32

great way of put in that I think of the worst days of my

31:39

life and I remind myself that I got through that I could do this you know

31:44

I've been through alcoholism I've been through bipolar I've been through losing the woman I loved like at this point if you want to

31:51

take me out you have to bring Kryptonite and I just tell myself that like there's a a a strength and a peace that comes

32:00

from knowing the worst thing that has ever happened to you or could ever happen to you has already happened yeah

32:06

and I I think that is the case with me and there's a peace and a strength that comes from that and that to me is what

32:15

gets me when I have trouble adulting and I also try to remember man like you know

32:20

what this is Goofy and it and I don't like telling necessarily telling it because it's not necessarily applicable to the people listening because not

32:27

everyone gets to do it so I don't know if it's useful I always picture me standing on the Great Wall of

32:34

China which I got to do I think in 2016 or 17 I got to stand on the Great Wall

32:42

of China and there is something about that that always reminds me how

32:49

unbelievably lucky I am because I think if you don't live in China and you get

32:54

the chance to stand on the Great Wall of China you've had a cool life that is not an opportunity that many people get uh I

33:01

think that I always use that as a reminder there's a show I love called the westwing and the president's giving

33:08

a speech in the westwing and he's listing off the things that he'll tell his grandkids at the end of his life and

33:14

the first thing is he said I'll tell them I stood on the wall on the Great Wall of China and ever since I heard

33:19

that I've been thinking to myself that is something that not many people get to do and I did and no matter no matter

33:26

what else that is a life of something of some substance and so I guess maybe what

33:32

I'd say to all of you is think about that thing that you've done that you got to do because you are a lucky privileged

33:39

person and look our lives are not perfect we've gone through crap but I'm a straight white dude who was born in

33:46

Canada like I won the lottery already right and so whatever it is that your

33:52

life gives you Freedom the trip to Disney World all right if you've ridden with kids on a roller coaster at Disney

33:59

World you have lived a cool life and I just try to think of moments like that that hardly anyone gets to do and when I

34:07

have trouble adulting I just think to myself you have no right with everything that you've been given and all the all

34:14

the strength you've been given to get through all this stuff uh you have you just have no right like be better yeah

34:20

and I kind of chew myself out to be completely honest which probably isn't healthy man but when faced with your

34:26

with how lucky you are in this world like I've never really thought about it but I guess I did this once man I never

34:33

really thought about it till recently I went to see a musical in New York called Kimberly a Kimbo and it won best uh Tony

34:41

War for best new musical and it's about a little girl who has a disease that makes her age at I think four times the

34:47

speed of a regular person and all she wants to do is go to Florida because

34:53

she's never left her town in New Jersey and I'm sitting there in New York City in a Broadway Theater and I had just

35:00

come from I forget where but it was awesome you know I I'd been on the washingt or i' been on the Lincoln

35:05

Memorial steps and then I'm in Broadway the same night watching this show about a girl who all she wants to do is go to

35:12

Florida and leave New Jersey and it just was one of those moments where I'm like

35:17

you have no right at this point to to have a problem I I think of the

35:23

morning we found uh my girlfriend and I just remember that I survived that

35:29

morning and anytime I think I can't get through something I just think of that morning and I'm like you got through

35:34

that and and you're fine you're gonna be fine you got through that so I don't

35:39

even have a New Year's Eve man my New Year's Eve is not December 31st because that's arbitrary my New Year's Eve is

35:45

January 16th the night before she died because the 17th of January was the

35:52

worst day of my life right and so the 16th is actually a night to celebrate because it repres present another year

35:58

of healing and another year of strength and another year of growing and another year of becoming whole again after that

36:06

terrible day and so instead of looking at it like oh this was the worst day of my life I look at it as a day I can

36:12

celebrate another year becoming stronger from the worst day of my life so that's

36:17

like eight answers to one question maybe I'm going manic again brother no I'm just letting you roll because that was

36:23

amazing it's it's it's amazing and kudos to you for having the strength to to go

36:29

through that and you know and it's funny having that you're you're talking about all these Reflections and on coming

36:35

through stuff which is um a great segue into the last question I ask is which is

36:42

uh you know if you could if you could duplicate young you across the table from you and tell

36:50

them all the stuff that you've done now as an adult what do you think that little kid would say about all this

37:01

stuff you know to answer that question I have to go back to being that

37:07

kid and I gotta admit man I don't think I'd want to have that meeting if that's

37:12

what was going to happen if I didn't get to also tell him a bunch of other stuff like if all I got to do was give him my

37:19

resume yeah I think it would scare the crap out of them and I think at that point in my

37:25

life I'll tell you how I think that kid would react I love telling stories man

37:31

when I was that kid uh the last year of high school my parents let me throw the

37:36

end of high school party the one that's at the end of every team movie you know everyone goes up to so and so's Cottage

37:43

and that's when all the story lines come together there's one on a dock yeah and

37:48

there's another comedic one that like fall like get lost in the woods but anyway this party I got to host it and

37:54

I'm sitting against the cottage and I'm having a beer with my buddy Scott and Scott's This brilliant musician athlete

38:01

you know scholar he's good at everything and two of our friends have got their arms wrapped around each other and

38:06

they're watching the sunset go down so I I have this couple silhouetted in front of a sunset it looks like a a painting

38:13

and I I get kind of pissed because I'm single and I've been single my whole high school life and I turn to Scotty

38:19

and I'm like see I wish I had that and Scotty goes man for a guy who has everything I can't believe how much you

38:28

talk about what you don't have H and I was like first of all the idea

38:33

that I had everything kind of blew my mind in the eyes of somebody else and so

38:38

I got defensive I said I don't have everything all I have is pressure all I

38:44

have is the ability to let all of you down because I have all these grades and awards and everyone's telling me about

38:50

what they expect from me and they can't wait to see what I'm going to do in the world all I have is pressure and all I

38:56

have is the ability to let people down and that's not something I want it's

39:02

actually a curse and he looked to me and said man you got to give your friends

39:07

more credit man he said we don't love you because of the guy you might be one day we love you because of the guy you

39:14

are now and I wish you'd start to do that too he's 18 right like that's some

39:21

uh and Scotty and Scotty died at 19 uh rear ended by a like literally rended by

39:28

a cement truck on the highway outside of his hometown and that's who like that's

39:33

the type of people I've been lucky enough to find around me and I don't know if the fact he's gone makes those

39:39

words stick more but that to me I think if IID sat down and talked to that kid

39:45

and just if I was only allowed to give the resume and I think this is a lesson about how our our biography and our

39:52

resume doesn't necessarily reflect our actual lives because if I just told him

39:57

okay you wrote a book and he wouldn't know what a TED Talk was but you gave a talk that millions of people looked at

40:03

and you got to be a professor at uh multiple universities and get invited to Keynote these things all around the

40:09

world I think the poor kid would sit there and be like oh my God more pressure like what what must I have to

40:16

go through to deliver on all of those things and I don't know if I can handle it but if I was allowed to say to him uh

40:22

you're going to you're going to have this incredible experience with your friends you're going going to travel all

40:28

over and see these things you're going to do it all while doing something that you love and you actually are naturally

40:33

talented at as well um you're also going to overcome things that were way harder

40:40

than you thought you could ever face before and you'll overcome them all if I could add context to it all if I could

40:46

tell him that he'll become less stressed out about having to deliver for other

40:51

people if I could tell him that the path would be easier than he envisioned I'd do it but if I could only tell him what

40:57

I did I think it would freak him out and I think it would make him wonder if he could do it and I think it would make

41:03

him terrified that even though he knows he's talking to me and it clearly happened I think it would make him wonder if somehow he was gonna screw it

41:10

up man that's a great answer true because I was dumb as crap at 18 uh and

41:16

I was I was more hateful of myself at 18 than anyone should

41:22

be unfortunately I have a lot of experience with that myself and uh yeah

41:27

it's uh that's that that's that may be one of the best answers I've gotten from that question so I appreciate you going

41:33

there with me and I definitely want to be respectful your time because I know you have a flight as well um I'm having

41:38

a blast of the flight's not not a like too soon so I love your questions man you ask what you need to ask I

41:45

appreciate that yeah and you know I before we wrap up I just want to like really um just share my appreciation for

41:52

you uh when I reached out to you years ago um

41:57

you didn't ever pause to a to to help and I still have the notes from that

42:04

conversation um and I I one of my things when I started moving into this world um

42:11

was at the top and I and it you know credit to you is that like but what does this story mean to them and I remember

42:18

you telling me that over and over and it just really helped because being a natural Storyteller myself you know but

42:24

writing for kids and writing for what was the little me right that that

42:30

is that what I always kind of strive towards and then when I switched to adults it was like you really kind of like you know what does it mean to them

42:37

and it was funny how that is the exact same story and you're you're sharing the

42:43

way that you framed all this stuff up you know I just want to like dude I I mean you probably hear it a lot but I

42:48

want to just make sure you hear it from somebody that doesn't know you so well like you know congratulations man you're doing like an awesome job at lifing um

42:57

and you know man that is that is a compl I have never given myself man so I

43:02

really appreciate that and you know and and it's really um I celebrate like your

43:07

vulnerability en doying that and showing other people that like hope does exist you know um just because what is your

43:13

hardest thing right now doesn't mean this defines who you are just happens to be what's happening right now and I

43:19

think you're you're a beacon for so many people out there that do that that are struggling in that and um just you know

43:26

I know I don't have to tell you keep doing what you're doing cuz I know you're going to but like you know there are people even in those days where you

43:31

feel lonely and and you feel like you're not doing it you have you are doing it

43:37

you know and many people are are being impacted by what you're doing um and

43:42

yeah just just thanks for sharing life with me and being in this crazy Journey with me and uh can I give you one more

43:49

man just I thought of because I uh I shouldn't do it because you just gave the nicest wrap up and like everything

43:55

in my like broadcasting mind is like oh man let that like that's a perfect slide out but um I just want to say this kugi

44:03

do you know what kugi is no it's a Japanese art form where you put broken

44:09

pieces of pottery back together using Liquid Gold oh and that means the most

44:14

beautiful part of the art is the part where it was broken and I just wanted to share that with anybody listening

44:20

because I remember the woman who taught it to me because I do these these courses and workshops where I ask people

44:26

to identify value that's important to them she said resilience and then you have to create a question that you ask

44:31

every day and her question was how did I embrace kugi today and I asked her what it meant she told me that I want the

44:38

most beautiful parts of who I am to be where I was broken wow and I I just

44:43

think knowing the work that you do and the way that you look at it and the concept of Hope like for me what I try

44:49

to do every day ever since she told me that was embody kugi is recognize that

44:54

I'm a bunch of pieces that have been put back together but I was put back together with liquid gold and that means

45:00

that like every break is gorgeous and it's it's I think just a cool way of thinking about the world is that we're

45:07

filled with it's filled with kugi and if you go online and you look at the actual art pieces but you picture them as

45:13

people you start to realize like yeah that's me and that's pretty gorgeous

45:19

that's amazing man you're gorgeous baby you're gorgeous that's right and so guys I will make sure that all of uh Drew's

45:26

stuff is in the show notes and everything like that get his book it's awesome um you know if you get a chance

45:31

to check out his TED Talks there all these links are going to be in all the show notes um and you know great dude

45:37

obviously reach out to him um when he's not traveling the world he'll uh he'll reach back out um I will actually

45:44

absolutely you will yeah and uh but Drew thank you so much man I will uh enjoy your enjoy your trip stay safe my friend

45:52

uh reach out anytime and I look forward to talking to you soon my friend stay positive test

45:58

negative see you man [Music]